Removal of Frank Viola book reviews and endorsements.
I’ve recently removed a couple of book reviews which I had written on Frank Viola’s book Pagan Christianity?.
Here are the reasons why.
1) Frank Viola and Barna raise some interesting issues and important questions but ultimately my reviews were not critical enough. My reviews were almost a 100% endorsement with no crtitical analysis. This is my primary reason for removing it. The following are some cautions which I should have included within my reviews of his book.
2) I’m uncomfortable with Frank Viola’s enthusiastic endorsement of Brian McLaren and the emmerging church movement.
3) After reading Viola’s second book Reimagining church I have come to the conclusion that most of that which I agreed with Viola in relation to ecclesiology has already been realised and expressed (perhaps more fully )within Baptist Eclessiology for centuries.
4) There is a subtle undermining of scriptural authority and systematic theology in Viola’s approach.
5) In an honest attempt (I believe) to correct pastoral abuses Viola’s approach almost removes leadership completely.
Having said that, there is much that is good in Viola’s writings. However, like I say, I think most of it has been said before in the baptist movement and their understanding of church. Reimagining church by Viola is really a baptist vision of the church. If you are looking for a contemporary book on Baptist Ecclesiology check out Nigel G. Wright’s Free Church Free State The Positive Baptist Vision.
If you are still looking for organic church but you do not want to risk the loss of sound doctrine you may wish to check out Tim Chester’s Total Church.
March 20th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
I think you’ve missed the point of the book. Frank is advocating that the church be led by the direct and practical headship of Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit within every believer. Frank does not advocate paid clergy. Church buildings, Pastors of any sort. If you are deriving any Baptist theology from Pagan Christianity you’ve got me puzzled. Second Frank is not a wholesale endorser of the EC in fact he has written more articles speaking out against it’s lack of depth and true biblical Christianity versus social justice and cultural relevance. In fact he just wrote another one.
March 22nd, 2009 at 10:10 pm
“I think you’ve missed the point of the book.”
What point do you feel I have missed?
“Frank is advocating that the church be led by the direct and practical headship of Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit within every believer.”
I know this is what he advocates.
“Frank does not advocate paid clergy. Church buildings, Pastors of any sort.”
Yep, that would be the message of PC. Why do you feel the need to tell me this?
“If you are deriving any Baptist theology from Pagan Christianity you’ve got me puzzled.”
Did you read the blog post? If you did, you would have noticed that I said Frank’s second book, Reimagining church presents an ecclessiology that is essentially baptist.
Do you understand baptist ecclessiology? If you do, you will see the essence of it within his second book reimagining church.
“Second Frank is not a wholesale endorser of the EC in fact he has written more articles speaking out against it’s lack of depth and true biblical Christianity versus social justice and cultural relevance. In fact he just wrote another one.”
That may be the case. But he does endorse Brian MacLaren, Maclaren is in many ways a spearhead of emmergent philosophy. I appreciate that Viola is not EC as such (hence the fact that I still said that he has good things to say). At the end of the day, my conscience does not allow me to distance my self from Maclaren but endorse the work of someone who endorces him so enthusiasticly. Which Viola does do.
March 24th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
I dont really have any right to comment on this as I’ve not read Viola’s book, but let me share what does worry me about what I hear.
I affirm the Lordship of Christ, the indwelling of the Spirit, the priesthood of all believers- but what I query is the idea that church buildings, pastors, church membership\discipline automatically negate these things.
I worry that what lies (lurks) behind many such movements is the philosophy of the age. In our context that would include radical individualism and rejection of authority. It seems to me that some people get bored or have a bad experience and are always looking for the new ecclesiological answer- Housechurch \ EC \ organic church?..
“Frank is advocating that the church be led by the direct and practical headship of Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit within every believer.”
I think I advocate that too, and I’m a baptist?..
I dont want to be too critical of Viola (or Jason!) as I’ve never read his book, and I remember speaking to John about him and thinking- yes he might have spomething to say to the church, but maybe you could comment on my thoughts Jason?..
cheers.
ps we’ll need to catch up soon John, hope you, Laura and Ethan are well..
April 2nd, 2010 at 3:55 am
Thank you for the books that you have recommended. I am curious if you can provide a reference where Viola endores McLaren or the EC. I have been searching online and cannot find a reference other than Viola calling him a friend. I have many friends that I would not endorse but I would not disown them as friends.
Also I must disagree that Viola’s book is a restatement of Baptist Eclessiology. The root premises may be the same but as a Baptist that is trying to transition to a more organic form of ecclesiology, I have never experienced little of what is described in Reimagining Church in my Baptist experiences.
Thank you for your time.
April 2nd, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Hi Russ, thanks for your comments.
1st, apologies as I have been quite sloppy in this instance and I did not use a quote or link to the reference. If my memory serves me correct I’m sure it was on Viola’s website and he endorsed Mclaren as an ‘effective evangelist’. In otherwords he endorsed Mclaraens approach and termed it evangelism. I would differ on this and see Mclaren’s approach as being counter productive in the area of evangelism.
However- in hindsight- the real issue at the point of removing Viola’s book review was more my terrible review rather than Viola’s terrible book. I just wasn’t critical enough of Viola, Viola writes emotively and this can produce emotive responses, especially when he deals with the frustrations of the heart relating to modern church practice.
This led to my 2nd post, intended to be more critical, which identified the underlying theological roots of Organic Church.
I do think Viola is simply reexpressing anabaptist/baptist/brethren ecclessiology. i.e headship of Christ/priesthood of all believers.
However I would agree with your sentiment regarding the baptist church. What baptists are in theology they are not in practice. They have adopted a very traditional church style when their roots are far mor radical than that.
The whole idea of the baptists is that they are supposed to collectively express the mind of Christ. They have instead turned this into a very often christless democracy and I think the organics are often in practice what baptists are in theory. If that makes sense.
April 3rd, 2010 at 4:37 pm
John,
Thank you for your gracious approach to subjects that people on all sides of the arguments can very upset and emotionally involved in their views. I have browsed through your blog and found a genuine passion to edify the body of Christ and I applaud you for that.
I personally have not read many of Viola’s books but I just purchased Pagan Christianity and Reimagining church and plan to read them this month. I have read articles off of his website and I agree that some of them are emotionally charged. I an curious if you have read any of Neil Cole’s work? He does not come from a charasimatic background so his perspective and writings on organic church are a little bit different.
I stated in my last post that I am transitioning to a more organic understanding of church. I want to share with you a link that my friend put together. I believe the Holy Spirit has prompted us to start a small movement called Kingdom Simplicity- http://kingdomsimplicity.com/
The goal is teach believers, whether from a traditional background or whatever, how to live a more simple life while at the same time learning to minister to the poor and the marginalized people of our society. My friend Joseph began planting seeds in my life about this several years ago and it is radically transforming my view of Scriptures that I used to ignore. After 23 years of professing to follow Christ, I am only now beginning to understand to what it really means to follow Christ no matter what the cost.
I highly recommend a short book that Joseph wrote called Poor in Spirit. You can download it from the Kingdom Simplicity website for $8 or I can send you a free copy- I have already asked his permission. He ministers to people with HIV Aids while at the same time supporting himself through his window washing business. He has been a great example for me to see the Scriptures come alive and I have witnessed the fruit of his labor for the Lord.
Thanks again for your time!